Is The Next Civil War Starting To Build Momentum
Image copied from Google Images - civil war secession order
The 2012 election is over and President Obama was re-elected. What do the implications mean? It might just be coincidence that President Obama is hailing from the same state that Lincoln did before he was President. Like Abe, Barack is now overseeing a divided nation. The question is, is the nation divided enough to begin another civil war as in Lincoln’s times.
ObamaCare is one of the mainstays of his first term in office. That law goes into full affect this term. Many businesses are already publically stating that they will not expand their business or hire new employees in order to avert the overwhelming costs that are coming to cover it. Watch closely as companies shut their doors, lay employees off or turn full timers into part timers. All of these are methods to help reduce business costs, but have the disastrous effect of also decreasing the personal income of citizens.
Companies are not the only ones taking notice or steps to do something about it. Several states passed referendums to nullify Obamacare in their states. They may think this is good, but with the usurpation of power from the states to the federal government, the federal laws are superior to the state laws so passing nullification laws may not have the desired effect. Some other action may be necessary to make such changes stick.
Those other actions are not lost on people. Currently there are 20 different states with petitions on the federal government’s petitions web site. Let us be clear here, I am no fan of the federal government or the way they do business but these steps are the beginning ones for DRASTIC change. The war for independence started with similar types of petitions to King George. When those petitions went unanswered we broke away from England.
The Civil War was fought over “state’s rights” when the federal government, run by Lincoln, tried to take all power into its own hand. Of course, the federal government was not happy about that and assumed dictatorial powers and trampled the South into submission. This move set the United States down a path of despotism and federal consolidation of power until we have the tyrannical government we are presented with today.
We look at history and we see that people are willing to absorb a lot of abuses. That is, until the pain of the abuse becomes too much and then they will do something about it. Today, there are 20 states listed on the federal petition web site all requesting secession from the United States. Just as with the Civil War, most of these are southern states and are citing “state’s rights” issues because of an over bearing federal government.
Only time will tell what really happens. If the states are serious about their petitions or not it should send a message to the feds that they screwed up and went to far. I do not hold my breath for the feds to understand. Over the last several decades the federal government has been building its own police state.
If I had to take a guess, should the states push forward with their claim, then the federal government will claim it is a rebellion, just like Lincoln did, and we will once again be a nation divided and at war with each other. The more that these states push their desire to secede the closer to reality this will become. If you have not already begun your preparations now might be a good time to start doing so, before it becomes too late.
Yours in Liberty
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I do not think that this is the beginning of a new civil War.
1. These petitions are simply an online petition that almost anyone can log onto and sign. Anyone can start them.
2. Most Americans are completely unaware of these petitions. They have not achieved “viral” status yet.
3. No State legislature is on-board with any of this. They all see themselves as good little loyal subdivisions of the fedgov. And most Americans, by a vast majority, see themselves as Americans, not as citizens of their states.
4. when the ramifications of secession became fully known, I think many people who like the idea of secession would drop out of the movement. “I loose my Social Security if Texas secedes? I’m staying right here as part of ‘Merika. USA!USA!”
Now, if the petition signatures went viral, and the number of signatories was numbered in the low millions, or if several State governments signed on officially, then I would be concerned. Right now though, it looks like an interesting conversation piece that will go nowhere.
Paul,
For the sake of peace I hope you are right. War has way to many deadly consequences.
I’m pretty sure that Paul hit it all on the head above. I wouldn’t worry too much about Civil War II kicking off any time soon. The petitions, as he says, are simply created by any user who feels like it and ~none~ of the state governments will touch them, like a bunch of hot potatoes. They’re just a means for a a few (and statistically, anything under 100,000 is pretty small with a population of 300,000,000) angry folks to voice their outrage. I’m pretty sure that all of those folks will end up on some ‘watchlist’ if they’re not already on one, but unless some state government gets behind one of these petitions or actually files a document of their own, all of this is just people blowing off steam. OTOH, if this indicative of something bigger, then the feds probably should take note. Of course, they probably will, and in fine government form will most likely over-react appropriately.
Actually there are over 1 million signatures total on all the state petitions, and remember the first one only went up on Sunday…
While I agree that right now this is probably just people showing their frustration here a few things to consider…
1. At the time leading up to and even during the Revolution many people still viewed themselves as Englishmen, so saying people see themselves as Americans doesn’t really mean much.
2. The Revolutionary War didn’t begin quickly either. It took many years some historians would argue it was decades. This could be our beginning.
3. It doesn’t take a lot of people to get a Revolution started. During the Revolutionary War 2/3 of the people really didn’t want to be involved yet here we are.
4. Two states just legalized pot for recreational use. This is like poking a sharp stick in the eye of the Fed tyranny. While many will argue this was just a special interest group voting maybe just maybe it is the tiny embers of something much larger.
Let’s face it with the nation so deeply divided and such huge problems looming is it really that hard to see us splitting up?
Let’s hope the secession momentum does build. What this country really needs is to be broken into a lot of little ones.
Secession does not have to lead to war, nor should it ever. As the States joined the Union peaceably, so should they be able to leave the Union. Lincoln did not understand that and this was the cause of the deaths of a million people.
@Hab- I don’t doubt that a whole lot more folks will sign the petitions, but I doubt that any of them will gain majority support in their respective states or that state governments will get behind them regardless.
@Ghost of ’76- During the Revolution, support came from the top down; the leaders/organizers were the ones conducting the war. They could pretty much draw on whatever resources they needed to (and could persuade folks into giving) and only had to deal with loyalists who were fighting from the bottom up. It would be just the opposite today. The big, bad, muckey-mucks at the top who control virtually all of the resources would be vehemently opposed to a revolution, and the majority of the population would support them. Also on that note, there’s the logistical difference. Britain had to spend it’s a## off and expend all sorts of resources to conduct a war from the other side of the Atlantic, offset only marginally by whatever it could take from the colonies by force. It’s shipbuilding industry was severely hobbled by the lack of timber from the New World, it’s economy had the legs cut out from under it by the lack of trade with the colonies, etc. The Brits were the mightiest empire on Earth at the time, but, like the Romans in their time, they were too strung out logistically to hold onto their far-flung colonies once those colonies had had enough of them. Our situation, once again, is just the opposite. A second Revolution would be fought on the enemy’s homeground, and the enemy would have the logistical, financial, and military superiority. We only won the Revolutionary War because it eventually became too expensive for the Crown to maintain. That’s unlikely to happen here. You’re right about the frustration building, but I think it would have to rachet up a lot higher before there’s any popular support for a Revolution, and I’m reasonably sure that that would have to be the case before there was any real chance of victory.
@Paul- I don’t honestly think that splitting up into a bunch of little clones of the giant problem we have righn now would do any lasting good. Government in those countries might be ‘reset’ back to the 1783 or even 1776 model, which would be a deffinite improvement, but governments inevitibly decay and corrupt from within. At best, we’d gain a century or two of the relative ‘bliss’ that we had for a while, and then the same problem would be there for our descendants to deal with.
@Hab- Secession ~shouldn’t~ lead to war, but it did the last time, and I can’t imagine that today’s bloated, corrupt administration would let a single state go without a fight of somekind. I doubt that it would start as an armed conflict. I’m sure that there would be threats, strong-arm tactics, and economic sanctions first (gee, sound familiar?), but if those didn’t do the job, some sort of armed ‘intervention’ would be staged, probably with the vociferous support of America’s mostly braindead masses. As the Star wars quote from Padme Amidala goes, “So this is how liberty dies; to the sound of thunderous applause.”
Please don’t take any of the above comments to imply that I in any way condone or support this or any administration. I simply am sure that lasting, meaningful change will only be possible when as close to everyone as possible understands the pointlessness of government. Education and a refusal ~by everyone~ to participate in politics and government is the only real way to eventually get the monkey off of our backs and enjoy true liberty.
@ Mike, well said.
Unfortunately I don’t think that will happen within our lifetime. There are way too many people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. It can easily be said that government is the enemy of liberty. Yet, we, as a people, allow our enemy to educate our children.
Is it any wonder we have what we have now? The idea of getting 100% of the people off of government re-education camp (public school) roll calls will take many more generations than we could live through. Certainly sounds like a good place to start though
@Jim- I know some optimists who are actively spreading the libertarian view on things, and some of them figure that with each person convincing just a couple of others a year and those folks each getting a couple apiece and so on, that things could begin to shift heavily against Government as soon as the mid-2020′s. I know that these folks have done some math on it, but I think that they’re being way over-optimistic with their numbers. Like you, I don’t really expect to be alive anymore before this method really takes root, but I’m hopeful that it will eventually, and the other road, revolution, is only going to start the whole show over again.
@Mike, I am not sure we have to get ALL the way to people realizing all government is a failure. If we can just get people off the government gravy train and working and thinking of personal responsibility again. Sadly I think this is a pipe dream. Unfortunately Amerika is heading to wall that Greece is already at. Since we can expect people to act the same way here that they are in Greece is why I think civil war is inevitable.
Personally, I think that things are more likely to simply tank out eventually. The folks who make up government are greedy and self-serving, but they aren’t stupid. Rather than provoke a mass uprising of some kind, they’ll just keep whittling away at personal liberties, one little baby step at a time, the whole while giving out more and more ‘freebies’ to bolster the ranks of the pro-government crowd. They’ve been doing this for a long time now, and it’s been wildly successful. Look at the majority of the comments you find on the web; both ‘liberals’ and ‘conservatives’ outraged at the though of succession or rebellion, calling those who are fed up ‘disgruntled’ or ‘crackpots’ or worse. Look at how government has legitimized the use of force against those who simply don’t want to play their game anymore (Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.). A rebellion can only take hold if you either have enough dissatisfied people working together in close proximity to eachother, or if there’s enough general dissent that ~anyone, anywhere~ is a potential rebel. Right now, I don’t think we have either, and government is doing everything it can to ‘gird it’s loins’ just in case. Does an order for 450 million hollow-points by Homeland Security sound like a government that isn’t planning for the worst?
@Mike – no – but one where the Postal Service orders several million does
I agree things are getting worse. To step up the count we need more people like Ron Paul out there spreading the message. People with some clout like he has anyways. I realize every little bit helps, but doing it one person at a time wont work any numbers in any FAST fashion. If it did, I would already have a billion daily readers right here. LOL – I am lucky if I get 500 per day right now.
Somehow, we have to reach the masses all at once. With MSM blacking out anyone who talks about individual liberty, that is going to be pretty hard to accomplish, any doable or affordable ideas?
@jim- Like I said above, I don’t really expect anything to kick off for another generation or so. I can live with that; I think I’m a little too old for a ‘brave new world’. I only hope that things ~do~ kick off before the ‘powers that be’ have managed to neuter the population to the point that they’re ~incapable~ of pulling anything off if the desire to do so ever ~does~ become widespread. If that happens, they’ll have graduated to the same status as a ‘water monopoly’ empire like the Romans or the Egyptians, and it’ll take an ~external~ aggressor like the Vandals or the Hyksos to kick them over. So there deffinitely ~is~ a window of opportunity that needs to be met, but I don’t think that we have much chance of pulling things off in the extreme short-term.